[X] and [R] RP Wake-up call

[HockeyMaster195]

If your fighter and trader are on the same planet I see no reason why your pilot couldnt switch ships and engage in combat. Of course you wouldnt WANT to engage in combat, because it would mean possible death, but.... You could.

[Napster]

[quote="kill-phil";p="169038"]The issue of a trader switching to a fighter and attacking the pirate just makes a mockery of the whole RP thing[/quote]

i totally agree with him...

[quote="kill-phil";p="169038"]Profitable trade routes should be at least 3 systems apart (just an afterthought)[/quote]

but on this part i think trade routes have 2 be atleast 6 systems long...and all going trou hot zone sparta

Nap

[eagleone]

well the switching to a fighter is not something only a couple of players do. it is the norm. most players do it. they mihgt not say it but corner one, any one and see if they launch they wont, they will switch, unless they dont want you to know who they are in their fighter. ofcorse there is the other way of dealing with this.

this happen a couple of times when i was testing pirating and rp. they call there clan mates or freinds from as far as 3 or 4 systems away. they set and wait and when the calvary arrives and blast you 3 against one they continue on their way. weird to see 3 pirates blow up anouther then let the trader go. that is how you know it is their clan or good freind.

in true rp if you are in a untagged ship trading shouldent the pirates tax him even if he is in their clan or friend? that is a question i would like to see what many of our old pirates think.  keeping in mind we want rp taken to a new and better level. my vote would be if he is untagged he is open season just like any other, as a matter of fact he should be the first to pay to support rp. but that is my opinion what do you all think. oh and if he was under the protection of that clan for paying tax earlier wouldnt the other pirates just come into system and tell you so instead of killing you?

[Blazin_uk]

What i think is, if you have a trader and say a clan fighter, then they are seperate RP no matter who or what clan you are.
So none of the BS saying im so and so clan we dont pay up, well if thats the case then put the clan tag on the trader ship!!!  If the trader doesnt have any clan tag on it, then it isnt a clan ship now is it, Come on think about it its commen sense!

I will pay who ever and whenever when im in my trader no matter if hes a good friend or an ally or even a clan mate, i dont care its a different RP then my clan characters so why not pay?

So to the clans that say they dont pay up, 1 thing i say you do with your traders is put a clan tag on it so then we know instead of saying you are this clan when you aint even in the tags!

[Blackheart-X-]

Yep, eagleone your right.  But what chance have got, when some pirates,rogues,navy etc sit and chat to each other in open space.  The when you attack one they all want a piece of you, and the reason is................."because you attacked my friend!! lol".
I was in a clan who were once here and we had the rule that if you were in your untagged char, then you were open season. We were ruthless in our rp, but even we didnt really attack our untagged clan members unless it was just to have fun.

Dont want this to turn into a moaning thread so we must try and keep it constructive and keep moving forward with our ideas.

Again, I know that you admins dont like to jump in on threads, but you are more than welcome to or even if you want to pm one of us, it would be appreciated.

Admins, As you have read we have some ideas for roleplay, could we possibly draft up some new guidlines for rp or even the tax levels etc etc.

[anoyingnomad]

if navy or their mates come to kill me, i just apply a suitable old pirate tactic, RUN lol.

[Maverick]

The response on this thread is just overwhelming. It is awesome to see how many people are putting so much thought and effort in trying to come up with ideas to try and improve the RP in here. When I started this thread, I never ever expected this to happen. My thanks and respect go out to those who posted here. It's good to be in the company of people who don't sit on their backsides and watch the whole thing just go by.

I'm sorry I didn't post that much myself. This is due to the fact that I don't have too much time on my hands, and if I have it, I try to be online to get some recruiting done.

But if I see what this thread has become, I think there are so many great ideas brewing in your brains, that we really can undertake something to actually make some differences.

Like mentioned before here, my opinion is that is time for action.
I think we have more then enough suggestions to be able to offer a concrete plan to the ADMINs/VOIDs. However, the ideas are now so scattered over this thread, that it could be a bit hard for them to actually work with it. If we want the ADMINs/VOIDs to make it happen, we could at least try and make an orderly list of action points. This is why I want to make the following suggestion.

Could everybody that has posted his ideas, make yet another post here in which you sum up your suggestions and visions points-wise. Like this:
1: ......
2: ......
3: ......
etc.

Please conclude your list with a motivation and the suspected effects you think your ideas will have on the RP as it is.
Keep it short and to the point.

I will try and keep up with who has made these posts, and when we reach the point that everybody who posted here before made a concluding one, I will get all the ideas together and collect them in a single post. If desired, we could leave that one here for another couple of days to include the last-minute brainwaves into it. When this is done, it is up to the A-Team to decide which points are viable.
To keep it organized I would ask all of you, if you come up with another idea after you made your concluding post, to please edit this post.
Accordingly, I will arrange all of this in one message and send it to whatever ADMIN feels the desire to get the ball rolling. If needed, I will send it to more then one. I know for sure about some ADMINs, that they at least tend to reply to PM's.

For this reason, I also want to make a call to any ADMIN. Please jump in here whenever you want to, and tell us what you think. We know you are reading this. As you can see, there are a lot of people here who really want to make an effort of improving RP, and therefor the playing environment on VOID. This can only be appreciated, and a reply and maybe some input from one of you would therefor be nice.

Again, many many thanks to all of you. This is why I like this place.  =D>

Get them coming!

Regards,

MAVERICK

[Blackheart-X-]

Here goes.

1.  A new "tax" rate for pirates.  Something along the lines of Tax = Rank.  The higher rank you are the more you get taxed.
2. A role play Bulletin Board where on rp is allowed. No flames, no conversations just adverts for jobs or prices for services/equipment etc.
3. All players must swear to uphold rp.  This can be done by holding the correct licence and following the guidlines for this rp.  Admins/voids could monitor these players to make sure they are following their code of conduct.


These 3 or more for the long term.

1. New ships more suited to pirating.  Freighters with cds, that can stand up to the super advanced fighters we have here.
2. Longer trade routes that hold more of a profit.
3. Larger cargo bays which again make more of a profit.

I feel all of these would increase role play here on the void.  Traders willing to try the trade runs for the big bucks carrying cargo they dont want to lose, so when confronted with a pirate they should call for help, hire an escort,pay the pirate.  This in turn means more traders calling for help which hopefully gives the mercs,assasins a job to do.  Also, this would have a knockon effect and hopefully lead to clans being more proactive against the threat of pirates and rogues.

Just thought of a new idea but not sure how it would work.  Is there a way to deduct money from players who are killed and have to respawn.  Somehow the higher the rank the more the charge to respawn.  Players would maybe treat their in game life with more caution if they knew they would lose valuable credits if they die.

Just a thought.

[kill-phil]

I know quite a few players here play on the Discovery server, which is strict RP. The Void is not an RP server but it seems from the posts on this thread  players want some aspects of RP.
The question is how far down the RP road do we want to go and what rules do we want introduced or changed.

1) take away the 200k limit
2) trade routes farther apart
3) players attitude towards pirates needs to change (try to escape but pay if cornered)
4) pirates need to do the job properly
   (kill as a last resort & tax at an appropriate level)
5) only tax traders

At the moment the Discovery server is by far the most popular, and you will find players in all the systems, trading, pirating, policing, bounty hunting etc. It seems to me we have three choices:

1) keep it as a pvp server (which in my opinion is the current position)
2) adopt certain aspects of RP
3) make it a full RP server

Maybe this should be put to the vote before we go into any further into the discussion about RP, see what the current active players really want.

[Black_Legion]Hood

[Watchwolf]

Thought I'd have a look at what's going on here and got a PM from an old friend that said have a look at this thread.

Hm.

I started with great interest as I read the first page or two.

But then I realized it was turning into the same old blah blah blah. So I skimmed the rest and maybe missed some of the real nuggets in the conversation.

So here's my take on it, as if it matters or anyone gives a rodent's anus what I think anyway... with apologies if I repeat what was said earlier.

RP is RP... role play... as was said earlier you play a role that imitates a certain real life or fantasy role. In fact you are pretending to be something else. Like in a role playing game such as Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, which I have become totally hooked on. Scary how much time I play that one. Anyway, you play that game as one of many races in one of even more roles and styles. But think about it, you're not really a dark elf who specialized in stealth and kills whoever he feels needs it. But you play that part and if you have any imagination you get into it, become fond of your character and play it as if you really were that character. That's RP.

So why is it so hard to do that in another game, like ...say... a space sim that pits real people against each other in make-believe spaceships in an amazingly creative universe?

I'll tell you why.

1. The Admin has no interest in RP in the Void. They've said it numerous times... the Void is not an RP server. They say you can play it anyway you want. Perhaps it has escaped the obvious, but RP is part of the overall set "Anyway you want."

2. The Admin has completely squashed RP on the Void. Why is a mystery but I suggest you review point 1above.

3. How has RP been squashed? The idea that  pirate can only loot a pittance from only certain ships. That's not RP. Since when did pirates feel any restrictions on who they plundered and for how much? Pirates took what they wanted from who they dared. They were murderous scoundrels who sometimes worked together but more often would cut each other's throats for one more coin.  Yet here you can only "tax" 200K. What a laugh. The insistence in ignoring pleas to lift this ridiculous limit has caused the RP to evaporate.

4. All the most lucrative trade routes have been eliminated. Gone are the days when traders could make obscene amounts of credits if they dared to run the gauntlet of blood thirsty pirates patrolling the trade lane. And the Admin has likewise ignored pleas to return these routes. Traders make too much money was the excuse. So? Let them make it and let them takes the risks. Who should really care if some players have a billion credits. They don't do anything with it. It's not like they flood the market with money and bring on out-of-control inflation. To traders it's the one who has the most money wins. Sort of like the pvp'ers who have the most kills or the best kill/death ration wins.

5. Players who die whine. And that's the group who gets all the attention. Especially from the Admin. Mustn't lose players.

The Admin sets the tone for the server. That's their Role. Admin decides the right and wrong and the direction the server goes. That's their role. They take it seriously, as they should. They put their hearts and souls into the Void. And they want that work to bear fruit. In the form of players who enjoy the server and the fun that can be had.

So if they think RP reduces the fun for the majority of players they discourage it.

So you're peeing into the wind saying you want RP. It's not going to happen as long as the current rules remain in place.

If I'm off base here I would dearly love to hear it in public. But the lack of Admin response in this thread speaks volumes.

What would I do if I were on the Admin staff or had any influence on it?

Remove any limit on pirate booty. Let them take their chances. Let them become notorious and hunted scroundrels. Let the Navy... pshaw, another RP gone by the wayside because there's no one left to protect the general population from any more... hunt them like dogs and patrol the trade lanes for the good of what's right.

Return the most lucrative trade lanes. Make traders either decide to risk certain death trying to make ridiculous amounts of $ or have to find clever ways around the pirates.

In other words... encourage RP.

I played the role of the trader when I first came on. Pit Viper was asked to take me under his wing and show me the ropes by one of the more imaginative admin staff. And he did. He showed me how to make the cash, secret routes for making the big bucks that pirates didn't seem to know about. He taught me how to deal with the pirates, how to negotiate with them. I had a lot of fun and made a lot of friends. Then I tried out Navy and it was likewise fun, hunting down the pirates and other assorted bad-guy RP'ers. Then I decided to flip and try pirating. What a hoot that was. But then came the changes to the tone of the server. And piracy becme an exercise in frustration. So I tred being a rogue. Being called names didn't bother me. Being a murderer was hard though... I'm just too darn nice to pounce on people without warning. I's usually holler "Incoming!" before I jumped. That made it fun..

Well another long-winded puff of hot air from the Wolf.  

I should probably recap for the people with short attention spans:

Bring back the best trade routes and remove the limits on pirate "taxes" to encourage both pirate and navy RP's.  Make trading exciting and a challenge again. Bring back the play that attracted me and many others to the Void in the first place and you might see me and a host of others return to where the fun is.

[Maverick]

Aint that something to think about...

Thanks WW.

[kill-phil]

Very eloquently put Watchwolf, I couldn't agree more with your conclusions and sentiments, especially your point about the lack of response from the server staff on this thread, why are they not interested in RP on the Void.
The most popular FL server is strictly RP (between 100 & 180 players (typical evening)) so obviously the majority of active FL players out there are happy to RP, so having some RP on the Void would encourage more players here instead of having absolutely none. I mean just wandering between 5 or 6 systems having meaningless pvp does get a bit tedious and pointless.

That's my final post on this subject, unless the server staff would like to contribute some thoughts on the matter.

[Black_Legion]Hood

[zyraxes]

I agree,void need more evil activity.You must try be a litle bit more "united",like navy clans are.
And for taxes...there must some trade routes wich involves serious investments.Something like :

-a trader buys commodities which costs 5.000.000 credits or more.And with a route of ...lets say 50k,wich include one jg or jh he sell that cargo with 7.000.000 or more.In this way,trader will prefere to pay 200k or more ,instead of loosing 5 milions.So,just make special commodities with high prices and a good trade route.
Just a suggestion...

[Zebulon]

Wow! that took a bit of reading.   The Watchwolf hit the nail on the head.  RP is up to us. ADMINS are busy enough trying to sort out all sorts right now and enforcing RP on top of the server rules can be a pain. Why? Because as the WW and Eagle One have pointed out, not everyone plays the RP game and they come and go through it as it suits them.  So - In lieu of any ADMIN related comments I am going to place before you some proposals.  This will refer to any who undertake to sign up to the Declaration and Charter of RP players on the VOID server.  The rest can do as they please providing they allow room for the RP's go get on with the game.  

1. Anyone wishing to be part of any Role Play on the VOID server has to sign the Declaration and Charter.

2. To fulfil your role you are required to purchase the appropriate Licence. No Licence - No Play. (this should be incorporated into clan rules and the clan leaders that sign up to the charter need to enforce the rules)

3. Tags:  X = Pirate (can clan and tax) R = Rogue (random killer - cant clan or tax) H = BountyHunter (Navy) All of these tags can fly what they like and how they like. At this point there will be no restriction on equipment and ship type.  T = Trader (can have clan tags if prefered) This HAS to be some form of Freighter. It cannot be a fighter.

4. Anomalies:  These are as follows.  Eclipse / -=REAVERS=- / AoF
In any RP involvement Eclipse are Nomad and do not need licences (that would be ridiculous) Their RP is quite clear.  

-=REAVERS=- Ok this might need tightening up.  They have a loose rep and dock wherever and whenever - the problem is they need to develop a rep that does not see them able to dock at all the navy bases - thats not to say that certain navies havent been bribed(ie I am red with Europa, Bretonia and Kusari but Neutral with Liberty and green with Rhineland. ) When fighting in Nomand 1 and other places - docking with Monkey base should not be an option - the attack needs to come from elsewhere in the system or from outside as it would in any "real" scenario - I will write this up further on the -=REAVERS=- forum.  In that you cant have Rogue Clans it would be inappropriate for -=REAVERS=- to carry the Rogue Licence. When it suits, rather than just kill everyone, -=REAVERS=- can choose to assist other evil players - however be aware than like the DORK fraternity we can (and probably will!) turn on you at the drop of a hat - so beware.

AoF:  They are not a clan.  However - they have Traders and Fighters.  They also have a pirate wing. The pirate wing needs to purchase Pirate licences.  Their fighter wing is almost the oposite to the -=REAVERS=- but as a loose confederation it is up to each individual to decide what rep they will have - use common sense - if you have an evil rep dont dock at lawful bases - likewise if its the other way round.  

5. For the purposes of RP:

Traders  - pay tax when asked rather than dieing - in a "real" situation you would pay up as death is usually terminal.....!  Upon signing the Declaration and Charter you agree to the lifiting of the 200k tax limit (ONLY if you have signed the Declaration!)  

Pirates - Ask for tax - dont kill on sight unless its a Navy tagged fighter.  Level your tax demand at an appropriate ammount - asking for 1 million from a level 23 player is not going to get you anywhere fast.  Should the trader abscond without paying then they are fair game to be hunted. (Keep in mind the harassment rule).
Pirate Clans need to start working as a Clan - make the traders fear your appearance in any system or at least get them to pay up.  Non Payment of Tax = No Trade.  Hunt down your prey - dont sit around and wait for it to come to you.

Rogues:  Be Mad Bad and Dangerous to Know.  If you sign up to the Charter I dont want to see you sitting in Sparta having a "chinwag" with your Navy mates...!  Likewise - if -=REAVERS=- or Pirates turn up and they are hammering the Navy either leave them alone or get stuck into the law bringers - You are a ROGUE and despise the law.  In the absence of the Navy feel free to pick on whoever turns up - just be aware of the possible consequences of doing so.  Hunt down your prey - dont sit around hugging trees and expecting the prey to come to you.

Hunters: Be Deadly.  Target the Pirates. Target the Rogues. Target the Nomads and the Evil clans. As per above  - no hugging or chinwagging! Make sure you have your licence...!

Navy:  Choose your branch - Liberty, Kusari, Bretonnian, Rhineland.  Live the role. Get organised. Protect your chosen set of systems.  Organise Crime Prevention Events - have a "Keep the Pirates Out of New Berlin" day or somesuch thing.  Use your imagination.  Start looking after the trade routes. Get together with other Navy Clans and go on patrols.  Escort the Traders (and do it for FREE too!)  Get Your Licence.

Evil Clans: Decide if you want to be Pirates.  The whole "evil" thing started because of the collapse of the Pirate RP. If you want to revitalise this you need to make a stand and start wearing the X tag with pride. Like the above - get organised.  Get your licences. Raid systems. Target Traders. Ambush the Navy.  Go pick a fight with someone outside of Sparta and Nomad 1 for a change.  If you choose not to be "pirates" then you need to tighten up your RP - I dont want to see Evil clan members flying from Navy bases.  Get your rep Red with the Navy and Green with the "bad guys".  (This is similar to the problem -=REAVERS=- have regarding rep at the moment - Imagine my horror to find that my character was sporting a Liberty Navy tag instead of its usual Corsair tag...!!! )

6. Stick to your guns.  This is the MOST important part of RP.  When you are flying a particular character remember that each of your five slots are INDEPENDANT of each other (unless of course you have a tagged Trader and a fighter - Same pilot / different ships)  I am of course refering to your Clan character being different from your Rogue Character that is different again from your Freelancer Trader character....Get the picture?
Play The Role.

7. Abide by server rules at all times (apart from the tax rule).  Be careful to ensure that any trader that is taxed has signed the Charter before you ask for more than the alloted 200K.  Anyone else  - ask for the 200k amount. This may even be a good way to start out - just ask for the 200k to start with so that traders who have signed up to the Charter get used to paying before you start extorting vast sums of money from them.  

8. Taxing (see above). Also - Once you have taxed a trader in a system they should be free to travel and not be molested by any of your clan or anyone grouped with you for the duration of their use of that system or within a set time period - lets say 120 minutes for example. This means they can still be taxed by Freelancer Pirates or by another Clan or Group either in the same system or in another area - it is their choice to run if the heat is too high and the taxes are up  - but even 400k out of a 2 million profit trade run is not huge, and its RP.

9. MERCY:  Be appropriate.  Meta-gaming is to be avoided at all costs as this will put payed to any effort we make to enahance and improve the RP.  If they get away - let them - you can catch them next time round. Failing that start planning ambushes.  This goes for Navy Pirates and Rogues.  I would suggest that you use the Five Kills Max as being appropriate.  If you are going to hold a Lawmaker event such as a "Crime Prevention" event be aware that you could be Very Succesful - meaning that none of the bad guys show up...Job Done - however if the bad guys are being proper bad guys - of course they will turn up....wont you?  Pirates - when you raid be mindful of the fact that you are not going to be liked.  By showing some mercy you will be able to promote the life of the Pirate - dont degenerate into Roguish behavior if you can avoid it.

10. Keeping a Grip of your Keyboard.    DONT RISE to non RP Taunts.  You are going to get the whole "Im new why did you kill me? " and "Your no Pirate your just a rogue..." and much worse.  Do your utmost to explain the deal - if they are being morons ignore them.  DO NOT resort to overkill.  It makes a mockery of RP and wont show you in a favourable light when attempting to promote RP.  
(EXAMPLE:  -=REAVERS=- enter Babylonia. syschat shows ORION talking with a level 50 trader.  Trader is clearly a new player because of the questions being asked.  In deference to the player I asked the ORION player to remind the trader to beware of -=REAVERS=- and to tell them why.  Later on I catch up with them. Orion is engaged with Pirate Sabres as the trader makes for the gate.  I shoot the gate and the trader cant dock so he makes a run for the base.  Knowing he is new I dont wipe him out immediately - I do some damamge and he regenerates as he is running from me (Remember this is allowed if they are making a run for it - think about it in a "real " scenario sense) I get him down to almost naked - but dont kill him.  He asks the obvious question .."Why are you killing me? I am new here..!"  so I break silence in person to person green chat and tell him that he gets this one for free as he asked for mercy and remind him to beware of the -=REAVERS=-.  This has several effects.  ONE - he is not agrieved because he was not randomly killed on his first appearance.  TWO - his response was "wait till I get my fighter..." GOOD! Bring it on! Promotes the RP and it gets him involved.
THREE - he knows what to expect the next time he meets a -=REAVERS=- player...! )

Thats it for now.   Remember - you make this place what it is.  People come to play here because they like it.  Its not too restrictive and has a very open ended capacity for all sorts of play within the server rules (of course!)

If you behave badly then expect only the worst to come out of others and for the new players to be of a similar category of @sshule.  If you play it right and stick with the RP then the word will get around and we will attract the sort of people we want the VOID to be populated with.. (and dont say naked blonde women with beer...!!!)

Im off to write up a Declaration and Charter.......be right back soon.  <):)