Dodging missiles

[RamireZ_Sad]

[quote="cmdrsaman";p="219702"]@ Sadman: seems like you're still a bit upset about our fight in NB. Sorry, mate, but you did the same against me earlier, turnabout is fair play  

About missiles: since vanilla ships have subparts, and afaik Void custom ships don't have any, I think it'd be a good idea to remove subparts from all the ships. That way, they'd all be equal in this regard.

Removing EK from CDs, however, would be a bad idea in my opinion. Why? Because there'd be no way of killing cruise / thruster EK slides then. If CDs only killed cruise engines, then in a couple of weeks, we'd see fighters zooming off away from their opponent, and turning to shoot at them at the same time. I don't know if you've fought pilots who flew like that but I do remember some certain players doing that around half a year ago, and let me tell you: it's really not fun :/

However, different types of CDs would be a good idea imo. As it stands now, adv. CMs with their 90% success rate means that escaping ships can very easily get away from CDs. However, in close range (so during pvp) CDs might be a bit too fast, so here's my proposal: we could have two kinds of CDs, ones that have a bigger range, travel faster but turn slower, and ones that have a shorter range, travel slower but turn faster. Opinions?

(Meanwhile, I'll go look up how exactly CDs work )[/quote]

@cmdrsaman > It was no problem with these fight but , look In NB it was another think there we was at asteroid field ..so no chance to do real slide..and have small chance to avoid missles / cd s at all...once I clear your group there but it was only than when I was in a fear not spammed fight 1 vs 1 if I remember clearly....

For missle users > its not a problem with your style of fight (using cb,etc.) there is a problem with spaming technic what using some group of ppl...look I meet ppl who ,,shoot out,, my cm from 120 to 0 in half minute coz they send all automatic thinks from his ship....nothing in bad but how I can fight with him ? He dont fight just sending the missels :/ I know its a technical issue at all to solve this problem....

I have fun from play FL before coz can win with guns and sometimes gun+torps ,and now I see only think that make me sad you can be better in 1 vs 2 fight only if you have too a ,,spamm,, device ... thats the think that make me angry an sad at all

Who know me good , he know I am fair always in fight and trying make fun from playing for myself and for others too .... coz without a good opponent I cant have fun coz nothing funny on kill with one shout...

soo I hope you understand what I want at all , want one think fair fight, not only a missle masacre...

EDIT : and before I like If I was ganging by 2 or 3 ppls  its was fun to avoid their attacks, but now its only a suicide  :-??

[die_volker]

Again, talks over how to make the mod your way and not the general user way.
It suck right now as it did before
There are guns only servers...... got my drift?
I am a missile user - and thinking even to try a missile only
Some called me names ans spammer (whatever that means in their head) from day one - and I do give as much now on their opinion as I did before.
These are options of the game and this is the way the game is played
Do not enforce your way - or just build your servers

[Gr8-Lizard]

I hada Gr8-problem with the msl users. Why? I was trained 2 contraatack the msls with cd,s, from the 2112 mode. It seems it dont work as well in this mode. Soooo????????.Its a game. I dont want 2 use them, but a misssler wil dont have my disrespect 4 theyr usage, cz he use the oportunities of the curent mode.Snipers may increase theyr abilityes. Simple answer 4 this problem, aint?So..Scream on!!!!!!!

[Battor]

[quote="die_volker";p="219738"]I am a missile user - and thinking even to try a missile only
[/quote]

=))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))

To be honest im not suprised.Wheres the fun if you are using only missles...i realy don't see the point... :-w

Or maybe you are using missles only to win in the fight cos you can't handel that whit guns...here's a tip for ya and for the rest...it doesn't matter do you win,it matters how you win

[McViper]

Guys you don't get the point.
1- Missiles ruin cm
2- There is no fun in wars if all the other side have 2missiles in each ship....
3- Yes Void is made for all, it is for all style of fights, but, it is made to make fun for ALL, not for spammers only or gunso users only.
4-The real fun comes with guns only in my honest opinion.
5-MIssiles ruin the fights, It has a huge advantage. Why? Cause when your about to kill the oppenent and when your without shield, he only needs a salve of missiles and he can destroy all your hull at once.
6- As sadman pointed out above, killing an oppenent in half a sec isn't fun. Cause this server isn't made to say "Yeh ye i killed him in two secs i'm the best!!" , It is meant for FUN 4 all.
7-Why not make 2 missiles max on ship (i dont count CD and torp). We would be all happy.
8-Why not make all ships equal chances against missiles, I'm meaning about subparts ships and no subparts ships.
9-Why not decrease the power of missiles? cannonball have 8000k hull damage i reckon, and are far faster than sunslayers, so with speed that hull damage will be multiplied = very fast fights.
10-Why not finding way to make long pvps, because as far as i remember, the nicer pvps i had in all freelancer servers were in VOID, and were all very very long, and when i tell long, it means that the time of one pvp in average s more than 5 minutes (my fights with battor were great )

Just my ten cents.

Regards
Viper

[die_volker]

Battor - you are absolutely right - i can't handle guns only - not by far
Guess what - I found out that I can fight with missiles - and it works!!!
The big surprise ?? - They are part of the game ... How amusing is that now?!

[Demonlord]

how about this u Ask if it Guns Only or not and in big battles u are limited to 20 missles and tops tat why it wont get boring

[Blazin_uk]

This topic has come up, well i lost count now  :-??

Sure there is some good replies here to change it around.

But you have to think of this from serverside of things, so say you changed the amount of missles used on ships or nerfed them so they didnt do asmuch dmg or refire and all that. Then IMO the population of the server will decrease even more as alot of ppl tend to use missles. Missles are apart of the game, and dont get me wrong i hate fighting many targets and my cms go in a matter of a few seconds, but if we was to nerf them or changed ships so they didnt have subparts and that it would ruin whats left of the server population.

But wasnt the Void suppose to have fighting techniques for all players so then it brings more fun to everyone and not just the guys who like to use them pansy lasers and do a 4 shot kill or something along the lines of that, maybe if the Admins was to change all missles or make rules then maybe the lasers should be scrapped from the game, cuz its not fun to fight lasers half the time when u dont need any effort at all to kill someone.

Just my thoughts...

[McViper]

Ye it's true, the server is for all kind of fight styles, but decreasing missiles firepower should be followed by another things, like balancing lasers and ships and all other weps.
Some efforts should be done to make the pvps longer imho. Cause fun comes with longer pvps.

Regards
Viper

[Inf1n1ty]

[quote="McViper";p="219788"]Cause fun comes with longer pvps.[/quote]
If you you are going to surggest regening next, than i'm getting all missles and ask the ADMIN's for some Nukes.

[darthnova]

1 missile is fine.
2 is annoying
3+ is just silly lol
My opinion

[cmdrsaman]

@ MM: Cannonballs do 4890 hull damage by default, while a Sunslayer does 11736. Even accounting for speed, splash damage and such, there's still quite a big difference.
Oh, and fights would last longer if both sides agreed to regening :D (*braces for the incoming stones*)
Scaling up every ship's hull by, say, 50% would probably work, too. (With the Nomad armor upgrade, that makes for a pretty big difference.) That way, even Nomad lasers would be less annoying, as ships wouldn't go down in 3-4 hits.

Also, I don't think removing missiles from the mod would be a good idea. Same goes for torpedoes, mines and such. They're an integral part of the game, and using them is a valid tactic. (Just as using a Phantom with Nomad lasers is. Never mind the RP implications :D) The only thing that needs tweaking, in my opinion, is the hitpoints of cm and maybe cd launchers. Oh, and I'd be all for removing subparts from all ships as well :)

[TheLaughingMan]

Oh dear
i saw many opinion from both sides now and im in the headline of "the part of the game" thing
There is some ppl who never focus on aiming just shoot toons of missiles and doing circles around you.
There is some ppl who focus on proper aiming and learning how to fight. Spend lots of time to do that.
I heard excuses about "im old man i can't aim coz my eyes" i think messing others day is not a good sportmanship (no excuses for this)

so the whole picture is when you fight with an experienced person with lots of skills (and more fun:) then a allied spammer just pop into battle and you re dead. A horde of spammers is another thing when you run out of cms too early and no chance to turn back to defend yourself coz missiles at every corner. My suggestion is not about you can't use missiles just please respect your enemy and give chance to defend himself.

And i "love" when i don't wanna fight with a player who never shown respect at all and he calling me moaner or runner

the last thing what i like to do when a spammer shown up and i choose different setup to hit any incoming missiles. In this way I don't focus on aiming just trying to gambling

[align=center]Lotery game isnt fun at all[/align]

so plz don't wonder if i saying LF after a fight coz this is the sign of "LUCKY FIGHT" XD

[Stoertebecker]

TBH, I am mildly amazed.
Missiles are (and have never been) a wonder solution to combat. They are strong, yes- but almost any modded (=no subpart) ships can take many hits of them.
Missiles require a different style to fight against, that's true. It can be learned. And (this may be a surprise to some) the CM is not a must-have in missile defense, just a nice add on. To be honest, when fighting missile users I almost never had my CM set to automatic.

Some keys to missile defense
-movement and speed. Never move straight at (or away from) a missile. The more lateral speed the worse the missile tracks.
-Distance. Missiles are far more difficult to evade at short range
-Fast refire weapons to explode them
-the allmighty CD don't fire it blindly though. try to get a feel for the moment the oponent launches his missiles, fire the CD a little *before* that time so it hits him just when he launches his missiles
-Choose the right ship

The latter point needs some explaining: some ships "seem" more vunerable to missiles than others. There are several factors to this:
1st subparts.
This is already explained above- so choose a ship without them

2nd position of the CM.
Take time to discover your ship. Notice in which direction the CM fires. Example: if it fires the CM straight behind, it won't do any good against missiles from the front.

3rd the ships shape
This is an aspect most pilots gleefully ignore in PVP, but which i found to be very important. Against missiles, it's even more so.
I always prefered long, needle structured ships like the viper or conqueror. If you take your opponent head on (like it was my style) they offer very little hit area from the front. Which means it gets missed more often than other ships- by missiles, too. Plus, even if a missile hits, it will hit most likely the "nose". Now keep in mind how missiles work- they damage everything within their splash radius. If it hits the "nose" of such a ship, chances are that many destructable parts (weapons, CM, shields etc) will be *out of range* of that splash damage, leaving the ship (minus some hull points) intact.
In contrast, see a ship like the titan (or it's derivates like the late horus and so on) or the eagle. A frontal missile hit will almost always include the entire ship in it's splash radius. Equipment will be broken, and the total missile damage will be multipled with the subparts hit. That's- in a nutshell- why an eagle can be killed with a single CB hit, why i.e. a conq, despite having "only" 50% more hull, will take many hits of them without complaining.


I don't know about the newest load of ships- however, in 2112 one of the most missle resistant ships was the conqueror. It has huge hull value, no supparts, needle shape and it was long (which is an advantage against splash damage).

Veterans will remember the old spartan- it was that long that the splash damage didn't reach it's damage box, meaning missile hits didn't damage the ship at all from the front.

4th training. Don't expect an automatism (CM) and/or some random CD firing to help much against an experienced missile user. Get some buddies and *train* missile defens. You may even discover some bugs with missiles, which either may help you using them...or defending against them. I can tell, because I (and Lemmy back then) did exactly that thing and actually found some oddities with missiles.

Hope no one minds my long ramblings, but missiles still seem to be one of the least understood weapon groups of FL.
Cheers

Becker

[Gr8-Lizard]

[quote="Stoertebecker";p="219831"]TBH, I am mildly amazed.
Missiles are (and have never been) a wonder solution to combat. They are strong, yes- but almost any modded (=no subpart) ships can take many hits of them.
Missiles require a different style to fight against, that's true. It can be learned. And (this may be a surprise to some) the CM is not a must-have in missile defense, just a nice add on. To be honest, when fighting missile users I almost never had my CM set to automatic.

Some keys to missile defense
-movement and speed. Never move straight at (or away from) a missile. The more lateral speed the worse the missile tracks.
-Distance. Missiles are far more difficult to evade at short range
-Fast refire weapons to explode them
-the allmighty CD don't fire it blindly though. try to get a feel for the moment the oponent launches his missiles, fire the CD a little *before* that time so it hits him just when he launches his missiles
-Choose the right ship

The latter point needs some explaining: some ships "seem" more vunerable to missiles than others. There are several factors to this:
1st subparts.
This is already explained above- so choose a ship without them

2nd position of the CM.
Take time to discover your ship. Notice in which direction the CM fires. Example: if it fires the CM straight behind, it won't do any good against missiles from the front.

3rd the ships shape
This is an aspect most pilots gleefully ignore in PVP, but which i found to be very important. Against missiles, it's even more so.
I always prefered long, needle structured ships like the viper or conqueror. If you take your opponent head on (like it was my style) they offer very little hit area from the front. Which means it gets missed more often than other ships- by missiles, too. Plus, even if a missile hits, it will hit most likely the "nose". Now keep in mind how missiles work- they damage everything within their splash radius. If it hits the "nose" of such a ship, chances are that many destructable parts (weapons, CM, shields etc) will be *out of range* of that splash damage, leaving the ship (minus some hull points) intact.
In contrast, see a ship like the titan (or it's derivates like the late horus and so on) or the eagle. A frontal missile hit will almost always include the entire ship in it's splash radius. Equipment will be broken, and the total missile damage will be multipled with the subparts hit. That's- in a nutshell- why an eagle can be killed with a single CB hit, why i.e. a conq, despite having "only" 50% more hull, will take many hits of them without complaining.


I don't know about the newest load of ships- however, in 2112 one of the most missle resistant ships was the conqueror. It has huge hull value, no supparts, needle shape and it was long (which is an advantage against splash damage).

Veterans will remember the old spartan- it was that long that the splash damage didn't reach it's damage box, meaning missile hits didn't damage the ship at all from the front.

4th training. Don't expect an automatism (CM) and/or some random CD firing to help much against an experienced missile user. Get some buddies and *train* missile defens. You may even discover some bugs with missiles, which either may help you using them...or defending against them. I can tell, because I (and Lemmy back then) did exactly that thing and actually found some oddities with missiles.

Hope no one minds my long ramblings, but missiles still seem to be one of the least understood weapon groups of FL.
Cheers

Becker[/quote]
@Agree!