About leaving&bans

[Moaner]

Every year we see some clans that leave VOID because bans

Every year we see some VOID tag that leave VOID

And it is always the same process: One or several players of a clan are banned, then they think it is unfair, they start to flame, and so on... finally they leave VOID, and some VOID tag that think it is wrong leave too, and some firends of the clan disbanded leve too. Some months later we see 90% of those players playing here

I suppouse that if you are banned there is a reason:
-You broke rules
-You cheat
-Your attitude is bad
-maybe they dont wanna your clan here (we know about what I am talking about)
....

There is always a reason for a ban, and of course admin can be wrong, then you just need to pm strail, or frac or another and talk about the issue.

So stop flamming, acting like childs, and solve this like adults. If you dont wanna solve it or you cant solve it then good night and good luck.

PD: all leaving messages except a few are just moaning messages.

[LIMAN]

I think this time its a bit more serious.

[Zebulon]

Liman - please explain.  Moaner has hit the nail on the head. "a bit more serious?" How so?

[LIMAN]

Ok ill explain.

1.
Zebulon:

4. Here is a small section of clans that I have NEVER had a problem with - just so we can get this into some kind of perspective:
BBB  Eclipse  KBA  NS  Shadows  EU  666  AoF  Knights  FTP  to name a few.  Why is that?

Well problems with 4S_SQUAD started when someone showed you and Amrod threads from private parts of our forums,and screen shots of jokes made in group chat.Its clear that someone has done this on purpose to undermine 4S_SQUAD status on VOID.It wasnt done from concerns for fair play it was done just to make us problems and you fell for it.

Im not going to defend  ESF or any others because i dont have enough informations.But i will say what i have seen.In your dealings with ESF,4S_SQUAD and couple of others you used pretty strong language and made some rash decisions.You got into discussions which have nothing to do with FL.I have never seen VOID or ADMIN behaving in that manner.

Reading private forums made only for clan members,do you think thats right?Do i read your mail?

As for these clans you mentioned,well hmmm lemme see,one Eclipse banned for cheating recently ,most of others there have small number of active members (except AoF).And in past some of these clans werent trouble free.

2.
Accusing people for cheating with absolutely no evidence (yes i read your pm to xenon where you mentioned Red Dragon.Im not gonna get into discussion who is cheater and whos not).
On the other hand some obvious cheaters were tolerated for months,actually they didnt got banned at all !!!
You actually accepted one of them into your own clan,guy admitted cheating and got free pass ?!?!?!

3.
During 2115Ma version you deleted chars who missused a bug in Tau-31 with non previous informing of any player that using that bug was illegal.Warning was given only after some chars were deleted,and im not talking about chars that were 2-3 hours old.
It was a rash decision.



I do realize that you want whats best for VOID,but i have to say: you are doing it the wrong way.



Some other things:

4.
Unequal treatment of players.
Some players are allowed to do and say as they wish and rarely get banned for that (dont ask me to send ss or similar i have given up on catching such memorable moments a long time ago).

5.
Talking about bad attitude,there are loads of players with that,sadly some veterans too.
Just read the forums,insulting in the ''nice and legal way'' is common.
Not much respect among players,how can there be when many are acting like pre-school children.

6.
Many players are leaving because of all those problems with new mod and slow development.Yes i know its in the making,but some ppl dont have so much patience,maybe they will came back when its all sorted out.Furthermore its getting boring,no events,well how can there be events when there are not enough players.

I think that 4th, 5th and 6th point are the biggest problems.
Unfortunately 6th cant be helped because Strail,which is doing a great and big job,is not a superman.

[Zebulon]

1. As I have said on previous occasions your inabillity to DROP what happened MONTHS ago tells me all I need to know.... The bans were lifted and your players were restored to play.  When is the last time one of your members were banned?  Exactly!  So obviously I have a secret vendetta against 4S....? Believe me I have much better things to do with my time.  I have stated my case in another thread and I am not about to repeat what should be "ancient history" here.  So its ok to insult someones mother and suggest that they should partake in unatural acts together on a "private" forum?  Grow up!

I dont recall banning an ECLIPSE member - but you could be right on that.  Still - one player in 18 months is not bad...!
I didnt say the clans were not trouble free  - I said I had not had a problem with them - I dont have a problem with 4S at the moment  - but you understand that should one of you breack the rules then you will face punishment for it.

2.  I see so if someone admits to cheating in a chat room to another player, this is "no evidence"?  Some stuff may very well be "circumstantial" evidence - but I know what I see with my own eyes  - and not just me.  Please name the person you feel is cheating - and why bring it up now?  If you know that this is the case then why have you not addressed it to ADMINS or VOID? Are you suggesting that I have a clan member that I DELIBERATELY allow to cheat?  Please -  if you have information I would like to see it.  It also asks the question why you would wait till now to even mention this..... Tells me all I need to know mate.

3. So - we all need to spoon feed you what is acceptable and what is not acceptable behavior? Tthe abuse happened even though people KNEW it was a bug - dont get all simple with me - you all know the difference between right and wrong and I dare say for some it was a laugh - believe me the easy solution would have been to remove all the level 90 Characters from the VOID appart from VOID Guardians.  Here is a thought - whe n the "error" eventually came to light and with the threat of punishment  - many players did the honourable thing and deleted the characters with which they had gained the money - so dont get Self Righteous about this.  How many level 90 characters did 4S develop and how many level 90 Characters did 4S delete themselves? Seriously! I would like to know this. It was a sensible decision and avoided a flood of 3 day old multi millionares - you read the posts about it - so dont even go there.

4. If you cant be bothered to gather evidence then dont whine about it.  I dont have a crystal ball to gaze into.  If I am not told about players misdemeanours then I cannot act upon them.  Ask RD about the SS and such that he has recently sent and ask if any action was taken - the answer was YES  and against one of my own clan members.  It was a short ban for swearing and with all such bans he was warned that if it happened again he would face a longer ban and even be thrown out of the -=REAVERS=-.  This occured also to SPAM.  So dont even go there with the "bias" accusation.

5. Pre school children? Hmm - Im not the one sitting on a memory that started over a ban that could have simply be sat out for a few days and then back to normal.  Since then I have had no problems with 4S other than this constant BS and side shots when anything doesnt please them, despite those things that were said - I wanted you to know that we knew what you were saying off site  and frankly that kind of attitude stinks.  You are very good at covering your tracks. Does a "bad attitude" mean that they dont agree with 4S? I suppose many would say that my definition of a "bad attitude" is anyone that doesnt agree with me?  Let me clarify that for you.   - Your still playing Freelancer arent you?  I dont think we have seen much "eye to eye" for quite some time. Have I banned you for it? No.

6. Patience is necessary in regard to some of the finer problems that are being encountered here.  The A-Team are working through a very large list of fixes and all in their own spare time.

I am sorry that you feel this way.  Only you can change that.  Much of what you raise should have been brought to light long before this as it causes unwanted and unrealistic animosity - Given that you are aware that when I say something I tend to mean it  - there have been very few complaints against 4S recently and therefore no need for any of the VOID Guardians to take any action.  

Gee - you make it sound as if all I can be bothered to do is go around banning people all day - trust me I would much rather be playing the game in the knowledge that everyone was playing off a level field and that myjob was actually not needed!   Get out of that rut you are in about VOID Zebulon always picking on 4S blah blah... I have better things to do than chase your clan half way across the VOID server on a whim.  

Enough said  - I can lay the "bans of the past" to rest - can you?  Lets see shall we.

[Koumori]

[quote="LIMAN";p="166744"]one Eclipse banned for cheating recently[/quote]

I believe it was Ruggs who banned Surdus (under the character of [R]~Flosculus~[R] at the time), and I believe the general consensus was that he actually was cheating. I haven't heard from him since, so I assume he has not attempted to plead a case.

Do correct me if I'm wrong, of course; but no other Eclipse members have been banned to my knowledge.

[Moaner]

[quote="LIMAN";p="166715"]I think this time its a bit more serious.[/quote]

Always it is serious for players involved.

A message to the leaving ESF:
In this moment all ppl are forgeting the good things, forget the game, forget the friendly acts of the past. players dont respect Admin team because leaving is a disrespect act. Leaving under that cisrcunstances is coward and a way to hurt the server

If you like something then fight for it, and try to find the best solution. Nobody lose something he likes easily, and nobody leave the people that worked for them alone.

Less words and more facts

[LIMAN]

[quote="Zebulon";p="166756"]

2.  I see so if someone admits to cheating in a chat room to another player, this is "no evidence"?  Some stuff may very well be "circumstantial" evidence - but I know what I see with my own eyes  - and not just me.  Please name the person you feel is cheating - and why bring it up now?  If you know that this is the case then why have you not addressed it to ADMINS or VOID? Are you suggesting that I have a clan member that I DELIBERATELY allow to cheat?  Please -  if you have information I would like to see it.  It also asks the question why you would wait till now to even mention this..... Tells me all I need to know mate.
[/quote]

It is well known fact who is  that person.He publicly admitted cheating here on void forums.He didnt get any ban.I call that a spit in the face to all honest players.
Note plz that im talking about past-tense,im not accusing u of allowing anyone in ure clan to cheat.

Zebulon:

So its ok to insult someones mother and suggest that they should partake in unatural acts together on a "private" forum?  Grow up!

Right of speech and right to privacy are the base stone of western democracy.It doesnt matter what is written,because those are private thoughts and are not mentioned for you to read.

i didnt say you have a secret vendetta against 4S,i sad this.
LIMAN:

In your dealings with ESF,4S_SQUAD and couple of others you used pretty strong language and made some rash decisions.You got into discussions which have nothing to do with FL.

4th and 5th points are not made about you.I feel its a general problem.

[Ripper]

Right I gotta add some stuff lmao

It's a game.

/end

If someone'd actually read and understand what i just said this server'd be a lot more fun to play on for EVERYONE involved.

You're leaving? Fine, i don't give a s**t for that matter. But if you leave don't bother coming back as THAT just shows your INABILITY to forget stuff and move on.

You've been banned from a game? So what, I've been banned from numerous games for just being good at what I do.

To sum it up... Void has the best admins. I've played a heckload of games and every person that got a high position turned out to be a retard in the end.

Void doesn't have that.

[Darkshade]

Yep The Void is the BEST and we have the BEST Admins and they are showing that to us when they make new mod and fixing buggs all the time...they need to take a lot of time for that even if they have to do meny things in their lives...
And yes its yust a game...u can start all over again as freelancer

[eagleone]

i will pm you zeb.

*edit* - thanks mate - Zeb